Celia Paul & Olivia Laing: In Conversation at the LRB
“To be an artist who isn’t undamaged isn’t the best kind of artist…”
“…but you can’t say that that’s the root to deepening your art either,”
Celia Paul joined Olivia Laing to discuss her new book about Gwen John at the London Review Bookshop. Their conversation covered not just John, but also the life and choices of female artists.
How does a woman live as an artist? What sacrifices does she make? How does being an artist impact a woman’s life, and what are the challenges particular to her as a woman? These are questions that I’m considering in the course of my research for my new novel.
John adopted a hermit-like life in her later years, leading what Laing called “a kind of wild, not social-sanctioned [lifestyle]” and Paul refers to making similar sacrifices to make her work: “I’ve had to be quite ruthless…I’ve not even had my son live with me. Social interactions take away from the intensity of my work. Making a choice between being in a loving relationship and following your own [path?]”.
In Paul’s opinion, “the way you live your life affects your painting”, but does it, as Laing suggests: “require relinquishment?” and if so, of what? Paul is forthright on this point: “…it’s not victimhood.” Both John and Paul posit that art “has to happen in secret, because it draws a hidden feeling” [CP]. Not only does Paul use art to contain “feelings that could get out of control if you weren’t doing something with your hands,” she maintains art is performative: “Painting is more like performance or dance,” and “when I’m painting, I’m not thinking.”
The risk of exposure is not just limited to the artist. Both John and Paul modelled and fell in love with famous artists (in Paul’s case, Lucian Freud, in John’s, Rodin). Paul spoke of “the hurt of being seen,” (although in this context it was in reference to a portrait she made of Freud, and his vulnerability, rather than hers). Laing argued that Paul’s book, represented, amongst other things, “the silent model speaking back”.
“The silent model speaking back”? Gwen John (Study for a Muse) - Auguste Rodin
Letters to Gwen John by Celia Paul is published in the UK on April 7, 2022 and in the US on April 26, 2022.